For some context, we are first generation immigrants. My parents are Russian, my mother and her husband have been living here for 20 years (even got rid of Russian citizenship couple years ago), my biological father is still living in Russia.
It’s damn exhausting to discuss political topics with them, especially my father. He keeps telling me how great it is to live in Russia, how their economy is doing great and how he’s proud that they are defending their “brothers” in Donezk and Luhansk from the evil bandera regime in Ukraine.
My mom voted far right in the past election. She doesn’t believe she voted for nazis, but the party’s views on economics, climate policy and immigration seem to align with hers. She believes wind farms are harmful for the environment. What the actual fuck.
Whenever I try to argue with them, they tell me that I’ve been brainwashed by “Western propaganda”.
I’m at a loss. I love my parents and I know that nobody’s immune to propaganda, but it’s heartbreaking to see them holding these toxic beliefs. How would you deal with parents like these? Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
There is a way to deradicalize people. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. I’m surprised this isn’t more common information now, but here it is.
You need to understand that each of us builds our beliefs on a set of ideological structures. We believe in policies because of principles. We believe in principles because of foundations. All of these ideas reinforce each other and create our sense of self. Preservation of the self is the highest imperative, and so people resist persuasion with increasing ferocity the more foundational an idea feels to their sense of self.
The way around this is to convince them that their foundational beliefs support a different concept. In many ways, it’s actually a bit like the premise of the Christopher Nolan film “Inception” without the technology: the person needs to essentially feel like they themselves discovered whatever idea you’re trying to convince them of, based on their existing beliefs.
This means first understanding what their core beliefs are and why they feel that these support the policies and identies you’re trying to change. Then you need to identify what can serve as a replacement, and find a way to get them to see the replacement as more appealing.
To put this into practice, can you tell me what you’d describe as their underlying principles? What are their fears and desires that shape their values? Common examples for conservatives include fear of change; a belief that life is a ruthless zero-sum game, and that we all most look out for our tribe or we will be exploited and subjugated by our adversaries. Conviction that tradition is a guide to keep us safe from reckless thinking, and that prescribed social roles and hierarchies are essential for our very survival.
If that’s the case, you can’t argue for progressivism by trying to convince them that we should all just love each other and welcome immigrants and that gender and sexual freedom are socially good. It’s like trying to talk them into jumping off a bridge. Instead, you need to explain how if you want to look out for yourself and your family, you should do it in a different way. And these politicians who sound so convincing are secretly the kind of people that they already don’t trust.
Keep in mind that replacing their faith in these kinds of leaders with your preferred political leaders is likely folly. People don’t invert their ideological identities. You need a replacement that is a good match, and because politics are often polar, a better substitute for dangerous political attachments are often simply outside of politics entirely. This may be non-partisan faith communities or sports teams or local social clubs. But if you can find a new story that fits into their existing theory of the world and satisfies their ideological needs better than right-wing politics, you CAN get people to slowly stop watching YouTube conspiracy videos or stop spending their time in far-right Facebook groups in favor of something healthier.
All of this is hard to do, but it CAN be done. I find it very frustrating that this info is still somehow obscure considering how essential it is these days.
I’m of the opinion that a lot of conservatives would stop being conservatives if they could magically gain the ability to feel empathy.
Psychedelics were like hitting fast-forward on getting through all that shit. I would’ve gotten there eventually, I think, maybe, but mushrooms were like a one-day intensive crash course to make it all click.
Fucking amen. Nothing makes me feel more connected to the universe than a shroom meditation
That means nothing. They only disconnect your proprioception so you don’t know where you end and the external world begins.
Trying to adscribe meaning to the conclusions of a brain addled by drugs is at the very least unadvisable.
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Anecdotally, I become hyper aware of my own body. The “dancing wall” effect is synchronized with my heartbeat, breathing slows to a crawl, temperature regulation is a bit off but that’s it
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Psylocybin has been scientifically proven to promote neuroplasticity and help make connections you wouldn’t otherwise make on your own.
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Both clinically and anecdotally, it’s a potent fucking antidepressant. It’s infinite more potent than anything I’ve been prescribed
Of course, it has to be treated with the right care and intention. But there has been and continues to be researched for its potent medicinal effects.
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Smother them with a pillow while they sleep.
Edit: this comment will land on the right side of history
I think a psychologist would say that if you really can’t find common ground, it’s best to agree not to talk about it.
Indoctrination is highly effective. Your parents were raised in a place where toeing the line is the norm and questioning those in power is traditionally a great way to ensure you disappear. Russians are deeply indoctrinated when compared to western nations because that’s how their society has been set up since 1922. The Soviet leadership ruled by suppressing any dissent, violently and without remorse. Just because the Soviet Union no longer exists, doesn’t mean their ways of doing things disappeared too.
The only way to change them would be to engage in an equally sophisticated program of indoctrination: deprogramming as it’s called. Since you lack the resources of the Soviet Union, it would be a much more difficult task, especially since your parents are now older and their brains are less changeable. They were indoctrinated as children and by a very prolific system. Reversing that now, by yourself, is a tall order.
I’m sorry your parents were failed by their leadership, it’s truly a shame.
Should I just declare to never talk about politics with them again since it’s pointless?
Yes. I thought that was obvious, when have you ever seen children being able to convert their parents?
I unbrainwashed my mom but not my dad
If you’re set on doing this you need to accept you may never be successful.
Also it has to be something gentle, not necessarily subtle, but compassionate. If you don’t accept that they believe in their views then they will only feel attacked and lash out for defense.
As for actually changing their views, choose one or two things that you can point to in examples they can observe. Propaganda has a very hard time defeating our own eyes and ears. I don’t even know which country you’re in so you’ll have to figure that out for yourself.
Another way to change their views is to get them to volunteer with organizations that help people down on their luck. A lot of times, just hearing the stories of how people ended up in need of help can change attitudes.
I work in Arizona with the homeless and downtrodden. The overwhelming majority of them are right wing and are homeless because they actively refuse help, among other severe mental health issues.
Similar struggle. I told my folks (they live 2hrs away and I see them every 2 mo.) that they need to choose: a relationship with me or talking about politics. At first I gave a couple warnings, but after maybe 3 or 4 times. I reiterated, me or politics, and left without another word. Works with phone calls too. “Did you hear what Bide” click - I hang up.
Treat them like dogs - they’re trainable. If you abruptly leave or hang up every time, eventually they’ll get the hint. If not, they’ve made their choice and if it’s not you, then you’ll need to move on.
I didn’t travel 2 hours to talk about someone I’ll never meet. Let’s talk about ourselves and what’s new in our lives. What’s going on in the garden, what’s new in the office, whatever happened to what’s-her-name you used to hang out with.
they’re trainable
This does work from experience. It also obligates you to be the person that puts energy and work into the relationship without it ever being reciprocated.
At any point you can decide that it’s not worth it anymore, OP. It’s completely fair to decide that this minute or 5 years from now.
My therapist made a really great point when I brought up this exact issue with him. He asked if I value a relationship with my parents, and I said yes. Then he said that the price you have to pay for having a relationship with them, is never discussing politics.
It worked for a year or so, but then they voted for that rapist again, and I’ve since cut them out of my life. I’m not walking around on the eggshells of their bigotry and ignorance just so I can get some semblance of what some may describe as affection. You can only say/do so many shitty terrible things before I’m just done with you completely, and they hit their limit, so it was time to cash out.
Sorry, my advice of ignoring politics only works for a little while.
If you don’t mind me asking, how often did politics come up with your parents?
Edit: just for my own perspective, they came up a little with my father while he was still alive and very, very rarely with my mother who I still see daily. I gently gauge the political position that my kids have but I’ve raised them all with empathy as a central tenet of their upbringing so that’s more or less where they tend to fall as best I can tell.
I am not interested in ending up where you did and I mean that with kindness.
My parents have conservative talk radio and/or fox news on basically 24/7 in their house and car, so there was really nowhere I could escape their politics. I figured out that all their talk was BS, but could never convince my parents of anything. I could take a quote from their favorite host, and pair it alongside facts stating the opposite was true from an organization that they, themselves, were members of, and they still would dismiss me.
In reality, it’s not the politics that got between us, it’s that they’re shitty people.
Rapist? You mean Bill Clinton? Or Biden, who showered with his 16 year old daughter?
Oh. Wow. Really stupid. I’m so sorry
I’m gonna need to see the receipts on this one. Sounds like some ‘pizza dungeon’ tripe.
Clinton was impeached for, at best, getting busy with a staff member. Maybe you have a different opinion, but I have a hard time believing things would have gotten as far as it did publicly if what truly happened was just some banal impropriety. Oh my, he got a blowjob from a college aged staffer? I doubt there are many presidents who haven’t. Why did this get far enough for immediate public knowledge?
Biden… before AI image generation took off, the magats made tons of compilations of pictures and videos of him making young girls obviously uncomfortable. Too much to just write off as coincidence or bad timing of photos. The bathing with his 16 year old daughter was from public statements made by the alleged victim, stating that it had happened.
Beyond all that, I have to get this off my chest: Y’all motherfuckers believe Epstein island is real (and it was), but you draw the line of believability at: “There’s no possible way the global elite could have sex trafficking infrastructure in the area surrounding a common meeting location. They would never use such obvious code language around pizza and pizza toppings. You know, the code language that can be verified to have been used by pedos on 4chan in the clearnet and that’s also been noted by darknet reseachers.”
I’m not saying the trumptards were 3000% correct to target a specific business owner, or it was in any way OK to condemn by public opinion without any true investigation.
But you are certifiably insane if you somehow don’t think that the elite have human trafficking services including heinously illegal and horrendous shit available at practically every port of call. That’s basic fucking kompromat generation tactics that most intel orgs the world over would be chomping at the bit to support. Fuckers.
I know I keep my tinfoil hat nice and shiny on this shit, but of all the things to push back against, you choose “The fellows at the top are likely rapists”?
Have you seen the garbage dumps made up of the blades from wind farms that can’t be recycled? As for far right, Hitler was a fascist. Today the fascists are the far left, people like Antifa who believe violence is okay, in order to achieve their political beliefs. Imposing your beliefs on others using violence is fascism, and the left definitely engages in it. While I don’t think Putin is a good guy, it sounds like your Mom might be right about some things.
There’s a whole lot of really wrong things there.
But show me those wind farm blade wastelands to start. Show me that - I’m gonna look by satellite because they’re huge - and we can talk later about those dangerous and violent anti-fascist types like demonstrators and veterans.
It would have taken less time to google yourself than type all those sentences. Go look.
Have you send the ash lakes and ponds from industrial waste from coal power plants? Have breathed in the smoke as it fills the valleys of the mountains of your home state? Have you watched as rivers died from oxygen depletion? A couple tons of fiberglass is nothing compared to the shear desolation of carbon fuels. It’s easily contained.
There is a paradox known as the “tolerance paradox”. The basic premise is “should you tolerate the intolerant” while at first it may seem complex it’s really simple. No you should not. Those who call for violence on other deserve the boot. That is the difference between the left and the right. The right punishes those they deem ill fit to live in society. Forcefully. The left accepts, but are not push overs. Those who oppress deserve oppression.
What makes you think I want coal? Hydroelectric is the best way.
Hydroelectric is not the be all end all solution. It is highly local and has long term consequences to water ways, solar and wind are far superior in terms of environmental impact.
Wind and Solar are just as bad as coal. They require a lot of mining.
I virtually never discuss politics with my parents. I don’t have a clue about which party they even vote for.
If you live with them it could be tricky but let them know you will not be talking politics or any kind of emotionally charged topic with them going forward. Lets keep it light and stick to the things we agree on and leave everything else at the door. Avoid talking about them or saying you or sounding accusatory to minimize defensiveness, just let them know these topics and conversations are not how you want to use your time and energy and thinking anymore.
If they start trying to drag you into a forbidden topic, simply let them know you are heading off to do something since you dont have anything to add or contribute to topics that you are uncomfortable with like you mentioned to them before.
Start with this and let us know if they bite. I’ve got some other ideas but start with this and see how it goes. At the end of the day, engaging in these kinds of discussions over and rehashed constantly is damaging and pointless so the key is transcending them by not participating in them or feeding the wrong wolf. Be polite and respectful but also assertive that you will not be dealing with these topics any longer
Although I don’t live with them, the topic comes up every time I am on the phone with my father. He keeps yapping and yapping about how great the motherland is, until I snap. It seems it’s all he ever wants to talk about - Putin this, Ukraine that.
Thank you for your advice, I’ll try setting up some boundaries next time he calls.
Ya just let him know you’re not spending your time and mental energy on that stuff. Stop talking to him on the phone or let him know that as soon as things are falling off course into that stuff, you gotta go and take a break from him for a few weeks.
Eventually he will get the message but if its still a problem after that, might need to go no contact to demonstrate you’re serious
